This is a test

Teacher Retention: Who's Abandoning Whom?

Guest(s): Michael Fullan and Joanna Rizzotto
Date: 09/19/2022
Run time: 47:54
Season 4, Episode 1

In a follow up to their widely popular Edweek article, the luminary Michael Fullan and seasoned practitioner Joanna Rizzotto discuss the roots of our teacher retention problem—the system of schooling itself. They contend that we need to shift to a humanity-based model where schools and communities can experience greater local autonomy and improve practices from the bottom up. One of the first steps is to have the more centralized figures connect with the people on the ground; the educators, parents, and students who see it all first. Such interactions would truly show teachers and other community member their value and give district leaders the data they need to make the most effective, holistic decisions. As Fullan and Rizzotto see it, teachers—especially those that stick around—have never left their calling, they have just abandoned an outmoded structure that too often isn’t nimble or responsive enough changing times.


Episode Audio

Episode Video

Michael Fullan Photo

Michael Fullan

Michael Fullan served as Premier Dalton McGuinty’s Special Policy Adviser in Ontario from 2003-2013. He received the Order of Canada (OC) in December 2012 and holds five honorary doctorates from universities around the world. His ‘interim autobiography’, Surreal Change, covers his work to 2018. Michael and his colleagues are now working diligently on field-based comprehensive system change in several countries. This work operates under the umbrella of what they call the ‘shared humanity paradigm’ —Equity, Engagement, Excellence--Deep change that integrates local (school and community), middle (district/regional), and state (policy) entities.

Fullan’s favorite method of learning is to partner with groups that are engaged with change; and to learn together with them. (And then to write another book about the experiences, and what was learned).

Michael Fullan’s latest books are:  Nuance (2019), Spirit Work and the Science of Collaboration (with Mark Edwards, 2022), The Principal 2.0 (2023), and The Drivers (with Joanne Quinn, 2023).

For more information on books, articles, videos, podcasts please go to: www.michaelfullan.ca



Read more



Joanna Rizzotto Photo

Joanna Rizzotto

Joanna Rizzotto is an award-winning, Latina, Alternative Education teacher. She developed and operates the REAL Academy, a specially designed program that focuses on regulation and healthy adolescent development. Joanna is the creator and executive producer of Educator’s Amplified radio program and podcast.

Read more



Peter M. DeWitt Photo

Peter M. DeWitt

Peter DeWitt (Ed.D) is the founder and CEO of the Instructional Leadership Collective, and approaches everything with a learner's mindset. He was a K-5 teacher for 11 years and a principal for 8 years. For over 12 years, he has been facilitating professional learning nationally, and internationally, based on the content of many of his best-selling educational books. 

DeWitt's professional learning relationships are a monthly hybrid approach that includes both coaching and the facilitating workshops on instructional leadership and collective efficacy. His work has been adopted at the state level, university level, and he works with numerous school districts, school boards, regional networks, ministries of education around North America, Australia, Europe, Asia, the Middle East and the U.K.

Peter writes the Finding Common Ground column for Education Week with Michael Nelson and they host Corwin’s Leaders Coaching Leaders podcast. In 2020 DeWitt co-created Education Week's A Seat At the Table where he moderates conversations with experts around the topics of race, gender, research, trauma and many other educational topics.

Peter is the author, co-author or contributor of numerous books and his articles have appeared in educational research journals at the state, national and international level. His books have been translated into numerous languages. 

Read more



Michael Nelson Photo

Michael Nelson

There is no more noble profession than that of an educator was what Michael Nelson’s mom said almost every day while he was growing up. For almost 40 years, Michael has been an educator. His mom would be pleased.  

Even though Michael still considers “teacher” as his  primary title, he has served in roles of principal, district instructional leader, superintendent, assistant executive director developing professional development for the state of Washington, and currently as the Thought Partner for the Instructional Leadership Collective.


Michael has received many state and national awards during his time as a principal and superintendent. As principal, his school received the National Blue Ribbon Award from the United States Department of Education. As a superintendent, he was named Washington state’s 2019 Superintendent of the Year. During his tenure as superintendent, Michael was elected President of the Washington Association of School Administrators (WASA) by his peers. 


Michael Nelson co-facilitates coaching, keynotes, and workshops with Peter DeWitt. Their first book “Leading with Intention” was released in May 2024.

Read more




Related Titles

Other Episodes In

N/A